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Report 265
Report #265 Skillset: Sacraments Skill: Trueheal Org: Blacktalon Status: Rejected Sept 2009 Furies' Decision: We do not find this to be necessary. Problem: Trueheal has the ability to be used excessively with no cost to the user. When used excessively, one can literally raid nonstop with 80 second breaks to regain power. It has already been used this way to raid for multiple hours on end. It is a much more powerful version of serpent (which already received a nerf). It can be used in any state other than asleep, stun, unconscious. It does not even require equilibrium or balance (Shadowdance Flight was changed to require both). One can simply raid and then trueheal when in mortal danger, leave and come back immediately Solution #1: Keep trueheal as is, but upon using it, one loses all defenses in exchange. Solution #2: Require balance and equilibrium for trueheal to be used. Solution #3: Limit trueheal use to once per day. Player Comments: ---on 9/13 @ 21:55 writes: I'm in favour of Solution #3 above the others. Solution #2 isn't bad, but the main issue stems from people using Trueheal once, attacking and then when they start losing, running away until they regen 10p, trueheal again, return and repeating this process. Given the fact that Trueheal seems to neutralize any sort of built offense. ---on 9/14 @ 09:44 writes: How about you wait until the report is actually completed formed, Nienla? I don't like either solution at the moment. Solution#2 completely neuters one of the uses (escaping bal/eq locks). Solution#3 puts an extensive limit on a trans skill that I really am not fond of adding. I'll comment further when the report is actually given a "problem" to solve. ---on 9/15 @ 02:41 writes: Merely commenting on the solutions thus far, actually. I don't believe there is a rule against that. Also on Solution #3, it's not an 'extensive limit' as you put it, since Demigods are limited to only using Divinefire once per day and they manage just fine. I fail to see where this is an 'extensive limit', if you'd care to elaborate. ---on 9/16 @ 08:35 writes: It's a limit being placed on a trans skill which costs 10p. 10p is the limiting factor. I doubt you could argue that divinefire's 10000 essence cost would restrict it being used every other second, hence the daily limit (also because it's available on top of real skills from skillsets). As I said earlier, I'll comment further when the report has a "problem" to solve. ---on 9/16 @ 14:57 writes: Erm. Power isn't really a "limiting factor" either. Not with certain individuals possessing Refresh, and most can just draw as much power as they want from their Nexus. It's not a limiting factor at all. It's simply just necessary as current Trueheal allows you to: Never be shattered in a debate, as you can use it right before getting shattered and then flee. In my fights with Veyrzhul, he will use it and attack again, flee when he starts losing, and then use it again and come back to fight and he does this repeatedly to avoid death. Honestly, the sheer fact alone remains that the ability completely nulls most sorts of offensive set up for a measly 10p, which is not a "limiting factor" at all as you put it. ---on 9/19 @ 22:25 writes: Honestly I'd still say serpent > trueheal overall, but I don't really like the idea of either skill and say nerf em. Only thing about trueheal though is it comes at the cost of having lolSacraments as your secondary. Last time trueheal was nerfed it was done with the promise that Sacraments would get offensive buffs, and they got lolFervour and hallowedground, which is good defensively but the offensive component of it is really bad. ---on 9/19 @ 22:26 writes: The other thing you could do maybe is have powerspikes be an instakill if they use a 10p feat. ---on 9/21 @ 15:44 writes: If any of these are implemented, we should seriously consider meaningfully dropping trueheal's power cost. The devil of the thing is apparent, and has been pointed out at other times- for all trueheal's strengths, it pre-empts other power attacks. Meaning that there's a good chance the sacraments user isn't going to get anywhere offensively either. More specifically to the solutions, I strongly dislike 2, because it tears the heart of of a big part of what the ability is. 3 isn't a bad idea, though you wouldn't even need a day to hinder the "run away and wait for 10p" maneuver- a sixth of one (approx 10 minutes) would accomplish the same thing. Heck, even 5 minutes would probably be more than enough to slow someone using this tequinique down sufficiently. ---on 9/21 @ 17:31 writes: Yeah, one hour is a pretty excessive cooldown for the skill that pretty much defines Sacraments. Definitely NOT solution 3 (as it stands). ---on 9/22 @ 07:40 writes: These are all fairly substancial changes to the skill. Of the three solutions suggested, one and two feel to be too much. Three, also, as it currently stands (one day). A lesser cooldown period may be acceptable, in the region of 5 minutes. Honestly, I would be quite happy for Trueheal to be changed somehow, so that Sacraments can finally gain something offensively without everyone going "But... Trueheal!" ---on 9/23 @ 07:19 writes: Thing is Trueheal works for a demigod without sacrificing offense. It also works for order members with avatars just logged in. Refresh+Trueheal usable off-eq allows a one to attack full force. Not to mention this is mostly for groups where if you actually are combating, you will not have to use power and can still significantly contribute to a group. As a note, Serpent now repops at about double the previous rate. It is currently just over 10 seconds ---on 9/24 @ 00:17 writes: As a note, Sacraments "finally gained something offensive," in that Hallowedground + Heretic is giving a 17.5% damage boost. :P It's currently bugged and reducing wounds as well, but when that's flipped the wounds will also be a very significant bump upwards as well. It is actually looking like way too much for something that can't be cured, but still. An offensive boost went in, a very significant one, which makes artifacted warriors even more deadly. ---on 9/24 @ 12:34 writes: Mhm, incurable inqui line plus perma fervour. I've suddenly lost most of my sympathy for Sacraments. ---on 9/24 @ 16:50 writes: To get back to the issue at hand, I'm mostly behind the modified solution 3- a short delay, 5 minutes or so, would stop the "run for 10p constantly" issue the report is centered on. If there does turn out to be a problem with the heretic line, that can be addressed seperately, but we should be a little careful that we aren't trying to inhibit trueheal as a reaction to those changes- even if trueheal were made useless, if there were a problem with heretic, the change to trueheal wouldn't fix it. ---on 9/25 @ 16:00 writes: I am in favor of Solution 2 personally, a delay of 5 minutes just means they will wait a bit longer before coming back. Requiring balance and equilibrium just means that they can't bank on it for getting group ganked, it doesn't make the skill useless in the slightest, just have to be smarter when using it. As Krellan said, Demi's with refresh can still use offensive skills, then refresh and trueheal, Veyrzhul himself has done it plenty of times. Solution 2 appeals to me the most. ---on 9/27 @ 04:41 writes: I could see solution 2, though it'd be pretty rough once Celest gets back to fighting Mag. Guess that kind of makes sense though seeing as how Celest possesses the counter to ghost. ---on 9/27 @ 09:11 writes: I find solution 2 to be the lightest nerf here. It's not too restrictive, but it's just enough. A cool down time of 5 minutes is nothing as to regenerate the power takes 160 seconds at transcendant discipline. ---on 9/27 @ 23:20 writes: Might want to double check your math there. ---on 9/29 @ 19:24 writes: Yes I was wondering why that number was different from what I thought two days earlier. Ignore the 160